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Whats up with "loose"?

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Whats up with "loose"?

Postby Sefrez on Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:42 pm

If anyone recalls my other thread about the loose armor on the Nikon's, they will find that I ended up taking them back and I ordered some Vortex Talon's from OP a few days ago (fast shipping so I am happy with OP.) I however am having another problem with these Vortex, and it has to do with looseness - but this time, it is not the armor. It is the dang focus. Here is a video I recorded showing the play in the focus wheel; every bit of movement you see is play; none of it actually changes the focus. Also it is worse when the focus is near infinity, as where it is in this video. It is almost no play when the focus is all the way to near focus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqW7lRVg9GY

Look at my fingers to get a good reference as to how much play there is. Your thoughts? I wonder if there is a way that I can remove the focus wheel and see if there is something loose that can be easily fixed? I would rather bang my head against the wall then have to service these out with warranty after already having problems with the Nikon's.

My $15 Tasco bino's have less play than this. lol
Sefrez
 
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Re: Whats up with "loose"?

Postby Jne_K on Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:41 am

Hi Sefrez

I am so sorry you are having these headaches. I agree, should not be happening. I am very fussy about focusing on my binoculars, so I would not put up with that much slop in the focuser. It would drive me nuts. The good news is that you will find the folks at Vortex to be very helpful. Iæd give them a call, at least and Iæ, likewise sure OP wood get you another Talon to try.
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Re: Whats up with "loose"?

Postby Sefrez on Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:14 pm

Yeah, I guess my best option right now is to give Vortex a call. At least I can see what they can do.

There is something else odd I have noticed with these bino's that I am not sure if is normal. It could simply be that I am not used to the pretty large FOV (6.6 degrees). I was looking out into my surrounding area (kind of rural like) and I decided to look at a pretty tall radio tower about 1/2 mile a way. I noticed as I paned the bino's that the tower curved outward towards the side of the FOV it was nearest. I did some searching and found this:
http://www.holgermerlitz.de/curv/pin_curvature.html

So it seems binocular makers purposely put some pincushion distortion in the optics due to the distortion in our natural sight to eliminate this effect. I guess the problem is, it seems it's not working well with these bino's and my eyes. At least I don't remember having this affect with the Monarchs. But again, that could be simply because the FOV on the talons is much wider (6.6 vs 5.5). Does this sound like a normal thing to you? Basically to say it simple there is quite a bit of distortion near the edges of the FOV, or you could say that the whole FOV is slightly concave (the center being furthest - the edges closest.)

Nonetheless, I will also mention this to Vortex on Monday.
Sefrez
 
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Re: Whats up with "loose"?

Postby Jne_K on Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:33 am

Hi

Yes, a good many binoculars do have some pincushion distortion, but I'll argue the point that it is intentionally built in by manufacturers or, okay, let's just say that you don't have to settle for it if there is so much that it annoys you. I have tested too many binoculars that that were so virtually free of pincushion as to be barely noticeable. I know better. None of my binoculars have any noticeable degree of pincushion and, yes, I have rejected some binoculars, even some very expensive binoculars, for having too much. I won't put up with pincushion when it gets to the point of annoying me and I am very touchy about my optics.

It has also been my experience that, as a general rule, Nikon binoculars tend to have less spherical distortion and are sharper to the edges than most binoculars in a given price range, so I will also dispute those who say you can't have minimal pincushion and sharp images from one edge of the field to the other at the same time in a binocular. I'm not surprised you didn't notice pincushion in your Monarchs. No, I don't work for Nikon, but I suspect their experience in camera optics comes to play, here.

It's easy to test for pincushion, too, right over the counter. Take any vertically straight object like that tower or anything with a pattern of straight lines like a brick wall and move the binocular back and forth so the object travels across the field of view. If the object bends and bows, you have some pincushion. You'll be surprised at how much difference there can be in the various models of binoculars in this regard. I've even seen the same model vary a bit from one sample to the next. Again, though, it's not hard to find binoculars with very little pincushion these days, though I will say that you are likely to see more pincushion in wide angle designs.
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Re: Whats up with "loose"?

Postby Sefrez on Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:11 pm

Those people that do say you can't have minimal pincushion and sharp edges must be wrong, because with the pincushion I have noticed in these bino's seems to also cause blurring toward the edge - also more than the monarchs (I don't remember hardly any). Anyway, I called Vortex, a guy answered and went to grab a Talon HD to compare to what problems I was having. He said the focus did have a bit of play but not like what was being described of my pair. He also said there was a little distortion.

So I don't know if I am going to send them in or not. My luck would be I get back another pair with little improvement, if at all. I will come out and say that a focus should not have any play - at all. It totally destroys the overall performance. I feel disconnected from the optics, if you know what I mean.

Is there a way that I can send these back to OP and get them exchanged for the Monarchs? I wouldn't mind going back at all. In fact, I would take the lose armor of the previous monarch I had over the lose wheel and distortion combo here any day. The ED glass is nice but the monarch still had very little chromatic aberration that was most of the time not visible at all.
Sefrez
 
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Re: Whats up with "loose"?

Postby Jne_K on Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:08 pm

Hi Sefrez

Given that all this has taken place within thirty days or so, I'm sure OP will work with you. Give CS a call and let us know how it goes.
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Re: Whats up with "loose"?

Postby Sefrez on Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:15 am

Hey,

I just wanted to update you and say that I have never decided to send the Talons back to OP but rather have worked out something with Vortex Optics so that I can exchange them for their Viper HD series. I should have them next week. I am hoping that these will be quite a step up from both the Monarch's and Talons. They are made in Japan, so I will take that as a plus. The older non HD ones rank pretty well on allbinos.com (16th place out of 62). The old Nikon Monarch ranks at 48 to put that into perspective. Though I think my Monarchs performed better than their results.

http://www.allbinos.com/allbinos_rankin ... 10x42.html (clicking "Test" beside the binocular gives loads of information they gathered)

One major plus that I see and that I hope I notice with the HD versions is the limited distortion. Nonetheless, I am finding the Vortex team to be very helpful!
Sefrez
 
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Re: Whats up with "loose"?

Postby Jne_K on Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:25 am

Hi

That's great news, but not really surprised that Vortex has been so helpful. Truly fine folks.

I'm with you on made in Japan being a plus, too, for a variety of reasons.

Please let us know the results of your trade.
Thanks for posting with us
Joanie K - Your personal optics expert

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Re: Whats up with "loose"?

Postby Sefrez on Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:49 pm

Hey,

Well I have had them for a few days and have been playing with them quite a bit. The build quality on these definitely feels "Japan Made" if you know what I mean. The focus is real smooth and a pleasure to use. The eye cup twist out is very smooth and much more solid. That is one of those things I noticed on a lot of bino's the eye caps would be lose in place - not greased correctly, or that is, quite dry.

As far as the optics, just as clear as the clearest I have ever viewed through (never looked through higher priced bino's - Swarovski, Zeiss, Leica, etc.) The field is a little more narrow than the Talon's, but yet I still believe it has a larger (or at least right at the same) hot spot. That is, curvature/blur does not start until quite close to the edge at which is uncomfortable to even look at. And even right at the edge, curvature is very low. I do notice a slight weird affect when panning the bino's, but I am thinking it has to do with where the larger flat field meats the edge. It almost as if it is mostly an optical illusion with the circular field and my eyes. Nonetheless, I think some of it is in consequence of a larger hot spot. So I am happy!
Sefrez
 
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Re: Whats up with "loose"?

Postby Jne_K on Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:58 pm

That's great! Glad things worked out for you.
Thanks for posting with us
Joanie K - Your personal optics expert

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Blog: http://blog.opticsplanet.com/
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Phone: (800) 504-5897
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