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Best scope for under $100

Postby knut on Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:03 pm

I know this has probably been posted time and again, thanks for taking the time to help me out....

After doing a week of research I have learned all about the different aspects of scopes;

Objective lens width (I'm thinking 40 would be fine)
Power 3X9 seems the best for my application (less than 300 yds)
lens coating (more is better but more $$, multi is the best I have seen for under $100)
tube diameter (1", or 30mm looks like the standard)
reticle type (I will probably become pickier after I find a scope as to what I like)
eye relief (the savage is heavy barrel and weighs about 10lbs, recoil should be light. 3.3in seems to be about average)
MOA adjustment (most under $100 are 1/4" and a few are 1/8", doesn't seem like a big deal)
FOV@100yds (Again this seems pretty standard)
Exit pupil (this is the one I'm unsure of its significance)
Parallax (I think this has something to do with how "true" the optics are at a given range, with longer distances being more likely to stray.

Feel free to correct me on the previous section....


Im a PC guy and I can tell you how to buy PC related equipment. Take an LCD monitor for instance. There are lots of specs, and to most people they all look the same, yet often models with similar specs can be totally different. However, there are often good deals to be found if you know what to look for...

I need the same kinda advice only as it applies to scopes.....I have too many hobbies and can't justify hundreds of dollars on a scope. I'm really hoping that there is one to be had for under $100 that will be of reasonable quality, and I'm not opposed to buying used.

I like to target shoot, so I bought a Savage 22-250 (model 112). I like to target shoot, but have done mostly with a pistol or my Ruger 10-22. I know probably just enough to get
The range nearby only goes out to 100 yds, though I'm looking for something in 300yd. Night and dusk shooting isn't much of an issue at this point as I don't plan on hunting, yet......

Thanks in advance......
knut
 

research

Postby MrGman on Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:09 pm

Look up the How to Select a Riflescope guide on this website.

Use the search tool and do searches under exit pupil and parallax and any other info you need. You will need a lot more scope than what $100 will buy for a 22-250 long range varmint rifle. A 3X9 is not the normally adequate scope for this type of rifle and you need quality optics.
These bases have been covered extensively. you can read lots of previously covered rants where you see my name on the subject of scope quality AR coatings, clarity, so on and so forth. More later.
MrGman
 

Postby Guest on Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:11 pm

If you absolutely, positively cannot afford more than $100, I would personally recommend the Bushnell Trophy 4-12X40, listed at $98.01 on this site. I make this recommendation based on experience. While I do not utilize this scope for target shooting, it has been the demise of hundreds of woodchucks at ranges to and exceeding 300 yards while mounted on a Winchester .243. It will do great things for you until you can upgrade.
Guest
 

Postby Guest on Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:47 pm

I apologize....the 4-12X40 is over 100, though I cannot recall paying near that much. The 3-9X40 is about $80. While I have zero experience with this scope, I can't imagine it's performance dropping that far off from the 4-12X40. This scope should fill the gap until you upgrade later. Good luck.
Guest
 

Re: research

Postby Guest on Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:47 pm

MrGman wrote:Look up the How to Select a Riflescope guide on this website.

Use the search tool and do searches under exit pupil and parallax and any other info you need. You will need a lot more scope than what $100 will buy for a 22-250 long range varmint rifle. A 3X9 is not the normally adequate scope for this type of rifle and you need quality optics.
These bases have been covered extensively. you can read lots of previously covered rants where you see my name on the subject of scope quality AR coatings, clarity, so on and so forth. More later.


I will check that out, though I'm typically a little wary of sites that sell and review items. It would be nice to find a review from an "independent" site. That's not to say that it's not possible to get obgective info from a site like this.

In any event, do you have any suggestions?

3-9X40 is inadiquate for 100-300 yards?

I will look for 4x12, though many sites I have read claim that less can often be more. Though I'm sure that depends a lot on the situation.....


thanks for the insight.
Guest
 

Postby Guest on Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:30 am

"I will check that out, though I'm typically a little wary of sites that sell and review items. It would be nice to find a review from an "independent" site. That's not to say that it's not possible to get obgective info from a site like this. "

Before you go off half cocked on what you don't know, do the research. The "How to Select a Riflescope" is about the technology and terminology of what a scope is, what it does, how it works, what the terms mean, its not about buying this or that model scope. It does not list or name any particular brand or model of scope to sell you something. Its generic information, like what exit pupil means and how you calculate it (yes math is involved). The "Reviews" are all from us customers/users, not from people who sell the scopes. The general information as to the subject matter you ask has all been covered here before. I don't work for Optics Planet and I have no interest in selling you anything. If you want to learn, then do some free typing at your keyboard into the search engine for the answers from guys out here who buy and use scopes. A 3X9 is not adequate for target shooting and hunting small game at 300 yards. a good quality 4X 12 with adjustable objective (focus ring to focus at the exact range you are at to eliminate parallax errors) would be a good start.

You are not going to get good quality and features you need for $100 or less, no matter what. The further out you need to see your target, the better quality optics you need to resolve what it is you are looking at.

You come to a website forum where users can talk about scopes, hosted by a company that of course sells scopes, You're asking for free advice, you have a dozen questions to nitpick the details about the cheapest of cheap scopes, not a thousand dollar investment. When some one offers you some help, tells you to simply look at information that is already there, the first thing you do is question their objectivity. Your a piece of work! I am being extremely polite in not using a better term.

I could have told you to buy the cheapest POS BARSKA out there and tell you how great it would be to fill all your needs hopes, desires, and dreams. And if it was under $100 you would have said thanks like I gave you the scope personally. :roll:


Good Luck
Guest
 

Postby MrGman on Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:31 am

Yeah, the previous post was mine, forgot to sign it. I have no need to be anonymous. Just in a hurry. 8)
MrGman
 

Postby Knut on Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:29 pm

Anonymous wrote:You come to a website forum where users can talk about scopes, hosted by a company that of course sells scopes, You're asking for free advice, you have a dozen questions to nitpick the details about the cheapest of cheap scopes, not a thousand dollar investment. When some one offers you some help, tells you to simply look at information that is already there, the first thing you do is question their objectivity. Your a piece of work! I am being extremely polite in not using a better term.

I could have told you to buy the cheapest POS BARSKA out there and tell you how great it would be to fill all your needs hopes, desires, and dreams. And if it was under $100 you would have said thanks like I gave you the scope personally. :roll:


Good Luck


Wow,
I'm feeling a bit misunderstood.....

Look, that wasent supposed to offend anyone, I really do appriciate your advice. I have read, ad-nausium, about scopes. I have found little information about what works best at what range, I have noticed that "varmint" scopes tend to be 4-12x, or 4-16x, and the longer range stuff seems to be in the 8-24x.....I'm guessing, without the benifit of expirence that the 4-12x, will get me started. I realize that putting a crappy scope on my rifle is like putting bike tires on a Corvette....

A lot of the information I am reading is generic, factual, I'm not finding a lot in the way of personal expirence.

As you infer, 2 scopes can have the same specs but the quality of the optics is everything.....Im just looking for the best scope for the $$$...I can accept that $100 isen't realistic......So tell me, where doest a "good" scope start.....How much should I save before i can expect to get something acceptable?


I found this:

Pentax Gameseeker 4-12x40 for $130 w/ship....Opinions?

Otherwise...I really do appriciate everyone taking thier time to answer the post and didn't mean to call anyones integrety into question....

Thanks again.
Knut
 

scopes

Postby MrGman on Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:01 pm

The gameseeker doesn't have adjustable objective which is part of the reason its so cheap.

The Bushnell Trophy Series 4X12X40 has AO, I have one, works good, The Bushnell Legend 5X15X40 is just about 10 bucks more and its not a bad starter.


http://www.opticsplanet.com/bushnell-tr ... ticle.html

http://www.opticsplanet.com/bu-5-15x40m-legend.html

These are in the $170 to $180 price class. The Browning 5X15X40 at $305 is a lot nicer, it really looks good but its probably too far out of your budget. It is a real bargain for what it is and what it does for the money. There are others, I stay away from stuff I know is made in China.

The 22-250 is not a target rifle. Its a long range varmint rifle. Its accurate but its powerful and high velocity bullets are meant to knock a coyote on its butt at 300 yards and blow up prairie dogs. Its not about looking at bullet hole groups at that range, its about knowing you put down a critter with one shot. It deserves to have a good scope. You will be holding back its capabilities with something in a $100 class. So this is a start.
MrGman
 

$100 Scope?????

Postby Big Squeeze on Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:22 pm

Dear Knut,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I have reviewed your wishes concerning what you wish to accomplish with your soon to purchase rifle scope. I have also read the replies to you.............To be very honest with you, you need to raise your $ expectations in order to have an adequate scope on your 22-250..........You must understand that the optical quality on a $100 or less variable scope, from a 4x12 or higher magnification, will be far inferior to the higher priced scopes!!!!!.........The last thing you want to do, is to order a cheaper scope, then mount it, then take your rifle out into the field and THEN,,,, be VERY disappointed with brightness and image clarity..........My suggestion to you is to either wait and save more money or use your credit card for the price difference between the $100 scope and a $250 or $300 scope.........Your a PC guy,,,,right? Not POLITICALLY CORRECT,,I hope!!!!!!! There are quality differences in all man made objects,,,even PC`s. Don`t skimp $$$$ on your rifle scope!!!.......You will need good clarity for long range varmit hunting and good clarity for accurate long range target shooting as well.............Do your homework!!! Read the reviews, magazine articles by qualified authors. Go down to some local dealers and LOOK through the different scopes and TAKE NOTES!!!!!!!!!!! You will see the differences between the $100 scopes and the higher priced better quality scopes................My suggestion for your use would be a 4.5x14 or 16! Great all-round variable for long range target work, varmit hunting, and would be acceptable for closer work (hunting) at the lowest magnification of 4.5 if needed.........Raise your expectations!!!!!.................Good luck...........Big Squeeze
Big Squeeze
 

Postby knut on Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:17 am

Awesome, thanks for the advice....I hate to cripple my new rifle with a crappy scope thats why Im heree....I could have went to Wal Mart and bought a $25 tasco, but I knew better, though I admit I didn't realize what it was going to take to bu an acceptable scope.

Bottom line is I need something, even if it's for a short time. Its all I can do to keep from loading the dam thing and taking outside and just shooting it up in the air (ok i'm kidding).

At 100 yards where Ill start I have to imagine I can find something inexpensive, though I will, without a doubt, save up for a model that does my rifle justice. I just cant wait to get out there and use it and when my groups are over 1" Ill blame it on the scope...lol

One more question.....

You said the Pentax Gameseeker was not a variable scope...... I thought that 4-12 in the 4-12x40, meant it was variable from 4-12?

How can you tell if a scope is or is not variable?
knut
 

gameseeker not a focusable scope

Postby MrGman on Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:07 am

The gameseaker 4X12 you mentioned does not have a focus adjustment ring, not a zoom magnification adjustment. You cannot adjust the focus to eliminate parallax as it has no adjustment ring for that. It is not a Variable Objective. There is not collar that turns in the front and no special side focus ring either. The zoom ring adjustment is in the back and of course being a 4X12 its still there. If you go over 10X magnfication you want an adjustable objective (AO) scope. The objective lens is in the front and fine tuning its lense group position sharpens up focus and eliminates parallax errors at the specific distance you are shooting, assuming it is working as it is supposed to. Don't want to shoot targets at 300 yards without one.
MrGman
 

City Slickers?

Postby Backwoods on Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:01 pm

I am somewhat new to the interent and all it has to offer. This is the first time I have ever been to this site. Probably will never return after seeing some of the lame information given here to someone that is in need of help. But here we have a guy looking for a cheap yet good quality scope and it seems he is being lead astray. I have never spent more than $50.00 on any scope for my .223, 7mm, 7.62*39 and so on. I shoot at and kill varmits, deer, pigs etc. at distances of more than 300 yds all the time, somtimes without a scope. The scope I use is the 4*32 made by BSA and purchased at Wal-Mart. So if you are any kind of a marksman at all you don't need all that fancy expensive stuff. Just keep it simple and cheap unless you are going to start making a living as a hitman. Good luck on your search. I just hate to see anyone get sucked into what they don't need.
Backwoods
 

$100 scope

Postby Big Squeeze on Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:05 am

Hi Knut,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I see that you have an interesting message posted yesterday from the user name of "Blackwood".......He seems to feel that you are receiving some "LAME" advice from those of us who are trying to help you with your scope selection and avoid any possible disappointments in the future...............He chooses to hunt and target shoot with a $50 BSA Wal-Mart scope. That is certainly his choice! He says that he has been successful in hunting varmits, deer and pigs. His BSA will do the job!........ However, when reading his reply to you, you`ll notice that Mr. "Blackwood" seems highly efficient, successfully hunting, the above game at 300 yards and beyond,,,WITHOUT ANY SIGHTS!!!!.......If I were you , I would certainly want to look this gentleman up!!!!! He could very well, be able to SAVE you from having to BUY a scope in the first place!!!!!!!! 300 YARDS AND BEYOND WITHOUT SIGHTS????????? ON VARMITS, DEER and PIGS???????? Why buy a scope?????.........Perhaps Mr. "Blackwood" should open up a shooting clinic and save the rest of us "experienced shooters and hunters" the expense of buying HIGH PRICED, GREAT QUALITY scopes!!!!!!! Yep!!! Leupold, Bushnell, Burris, Nikon, Zeiss, just to name a few, should really be concerned about their sales figures IF Mr. "Blackwood" opens that clinic!!!!!!!..............Mr. "Blackwood" also states his preference NOT to visit this website again. TOO MUCH,,,"LAME" advice. Obviously, he just can`t handle it. Neither can his maturity level!!!!!!...........Read in to his message for what it is and consider the source!!!!!!!...........Good luck!...................Big Squeeze
Big Squeeze
 

User name correction

Postby Big Squeeze on Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:17 am

My apologies to Mr. "Backwoods" in my last post for referring to him as "Blackwood"..................."Backwood" is the correct name. Then again, he may not see this because he won`t visit this site again!!!!! Our loss!!!!!!!!!!..........................Big Squeeze
Big Squeeze
 

hunting and shootin in the backwoods the good ole fashioned

Postby MrGman on Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:17 pm

There is absolutely nothing unbelievable about being able to shoot well with a good rifle and iron sights, I have friends who shoot competitively up to 600 yards in national matches and scopes are not allowed. He has good vision, steady hands, reloads some really good ammo (I know because I have shot some of it myself and it is shall we say dialed in), and knows how to put his shots on target.

If some one were to buy a cheap scope a simple 4 power fixed magnification would be the better way to go because its easier to make it work right, and harder to screw up when its only low power, has no zoom viarable complexity to add to the equation, and because of the low magnification factor, won't cut out much of the light like a higher magnification unit will.

I have said it before in many posts. The higher up in magnification you go the better quality optics you need. Mr Backwoods is not contradicting that point at all.

The original poster said he was looking for something in the 4X12 or 4X16 ranges for a 22-250 which is a long range rifle/caliber. I thought he was going to be doing some target shooting at those ranges up to 300 yards which could utilize that class of scope, if its just to hunt, he may not need that much power. If he is going to use it to hunt squirrels and prairie dogs and other smaller varmints, than that size range of scope is still a good choice. If you go with something in this power you wan't quality or the optics will hold you back, especially near the end of the day when the light goes away.

There are always compromises in what you get for what you want unless you have big bucks to overcome them.

So if you want accuracy and precision at long range then a bigger more expensive scope is necessary. If you want to just live with a smaller fixed power scope for general purpose use. Even though the quality is less it will actually work within its given limitations of course. Meaning you can see a relatively clear bright field but the target will be far away, if there is glare from the light in the sky your going to catch it, if its rainy or high humidity your lenses may fog up, but on a regular clear day, even towards the evening you will be able to see what you are doing, just not precisely.

You are not going to pick out ground hogs and such at 300 yards unless you have the eagle eyes. Buy what you will, but know what it is you are buying.
MrGman
 

Shooting skills

Postby big squeeze on Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:35 pm

I didn`t mention anything with regards to competive shooting! That is, without scopes!!!! I am familiar with those kinds of matches. It certainly is much easier shooting from a bench under controlled conditions, without a scope as opposed to hunting in the field with targets 300 yards and beyond with just iron sights.........I did say that Backwoods 4X BSA would do the job. I did not say otherwise. I also did not say that it was impossible to hit game at 300 yards and beyond. But the % of effective 1 shot kills (in the animal`s vitals) without a scope are greatly reduced, especially on smaller targets such as pigs and other varmits..........If anyone wishes to use a 4x, that`s fine. A cheap BSA is fine too. Hunt without a scope? That`s ok!.....But why go into the field and reduce your chances of success? More challenging? Ok fine!!!!! However, I would certainly like to see how successful, percentage wise, you, Backwoods, or anyone else, can cleanly and effectively take pigs, varmits etc. with 1 shot kills at 300 yards and beyond with just iron sights!!!!! Your talking 3 football fields and longer!!! The length of an aircraft carrier!!!!......I have experience in the field without using a scope which was many years ago. My eye sight was perfect then. My % of clean 1 shot kills was poor!!!!..... So! If the original gentleman in question wishes to pay Wal-Mart a visit and keep his expenses down to $50 or $100, that`s fine......However, I disagree with Backwood in his view that some of us were giving out "LAME" advice..........................................Big Squeeze
big squeeze
 

Postby Knut on Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:50 pm

Well....

I was willing to let this post die, but since there seems to be some level of renewed interest I'll chime in again.....

I went to the range today to fire my rifle.....My brother had an inexpensive Bushnell sport view ($80 new I think) that he let me throw on my new rifle. It is 4-12x40 w/ AO adjustment.

I learned a lot and it hasn't cost me anything, at least as far as the scope goes. First My local rifle shop was nice enough to bore site the rifle, that saved me some time as I was able to hit within 8"@25yds my first shot at the range. I was sighted in at 100yds within 12 rounds, shooting 3/4" groups (bench shooting)......I was a short on ammo, and itch'in to move it out to 200yds (skipping 150yds). My groups at 200yds with that scope (at 12 power) were 3.5".

The Bushnell sportsman was flawless within its capabilities at 100yds. At 200yds I was a bit disappointed to learn that no adjustment would bring my target and the cross hairs into focus. Also at that range 12x is inadequate for what I am trying to accomplish. Trying to accomplish real tight groups beyond 200yds is beyond the capability of 4-12 (at least for me).

Obviously I have to remove the human element and any tightly control or understand as many variables as possible before I will know what the rifle itself is capable of, there was not enough time for that today, something I will work on in the coming weeks.

I have proven that a $50 scope (thats what my bother paid used) is capable of hitting something the size of a ground hog at 200yds....

I'm sure with more time and experience I could repeat the 200yd result at 300yds.....

So what is it that I'm trying to accomplish, after all that is
what makes all the difference, right?

I am a target shooter, I want to get used to this rifle, I want to be able to shoot groups at long ranges better than most. I don't know the exact capabilities yes, so I will just say better than most. If that is 3/4"@200 then so be it.

I have all the time in the world to adjust my scope, I will be shooting mostly on bright days, with little shooting being done at dawn or dusk.

The problem with todays demonstration was a few....

New rifle
Factory ammo
The scope may have had some limitations at its highest power
Lack of experience with the rifle
Lack of ammo and patience to sight in methodically
And lastly was the guy 5' away firing the 300 Weatherby (the shock wave was intense....lol.
Not to mention all the idiots (I say that in a nice way) with their SKS' M-16 variants, and AK-47's blowing holes in tin cans at 25yds trying to make them sound like full auto (the dude with the AK could really do it!)

All kidding aside I do appreciate everyones advice. If anyone knows of a good scope, new or used on sale make sure and let me know. I found some at Kmart 1/2 price ($90 scopes for $45) though after today I know I want more, the point is there are good deals to be had if you know where to look.....

After today I will be looking for a 6-24 or 8-32 knowing that the higher the magnification the higher the quality will have to be to shoot "true", and thus the higher the price (/cry).

All and all I had a GREAT day with my new rifle, I'm happy with 3.5" groups@200 under the circumstances, but look forward to much improvement in the coming weeks.....

Again thanks for all the helpful advice!!!
Knut
 

scope

Postby Scott1119 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:52 am

i have a burris fullfield 6x18x40 that i dont need, i took it off my Remington 700, 22-250 when i traded the rifle, i dont need it, ill sell it to ya for 150.00 if you want it, and it is a very good scope, contact me at scott1119@windstream.net if you want it....
Scott1119
 

No cheaper scope 4 U??????

Postby big squeeze on Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 am

Hey Knut,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Well!!! There ya go! You went out to the range and discovered for yourself, that you will need to raise your $ expectations in order to ACCOMPLISH what you WISH to do!!!! THAT IS,,,target shooting with a very high degree of accuracy at 200 or more yards!!!!! You discovered that 12X was not enough magnification and the cheaper scope that you used was unable to be focused clearly enough to suit your needs at 12X!!!!!..................Remember!!! YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR WHEN IT COMES TO SCOPES!!!!!!!!!!! And,,,,,NO DEAL,,, IS A GOOD DEAL,,,,UNLESS YOU GET WHAT YOU WANT,,,,,AND,,,, ARE HAPPY OR SATISFIED WITH IT!!!!!!!....Better to pay $150, $200 or more and be happy and satisfied rather than pay less and be very unhappy!!!!.......Along with higher magnification, you need BETTER OPTICS for what YOU WISH TO DO!!!!!!....Perhaps Mr. "Backwoods" led you astray and gave you some "LAME" advice with his $50 BSA scope recommendation....... The rest of us didn`t!!!!!....Aren`t these postings fun and informative?????...........Now!!!! Put a GOOD scope on your rifle and go out and have fun!!!!!!!.................Good luck,,,,,,,,Big Squeeze
big squeeze